Boomerang Kids: Navigating the Return of Adult Children to the Nest - Ep 57

What if you had to welcome your adult child back home? How would you navigate this complex family dynamic? We're delving into this growing trend of 'boomerang kids', exploring the financial, emotional, and practical implications for both parents and children.

From setting expectations to maintaining open communication, we're sharing personal stories, observations, and expert advice on how to cohabit harmoniously. This phenomenon isn't just a U.S. trend but is happening internationally, making this a must-listen for anyone finding themselves in this situation.

Have you ever wondered about the age-old debate of whether adult children should contribute financially while living at home again? We're tackling this contentious issue head-on with interesting statistics, budgeting tips, saving strategies, and future planning advice. Beyond just rent, we also explore alternatives like contributing to groceries or other household responsibilities. The ultimate goal is to strike a balance where adult children maintain a sense of responsibility and independence. Join us on this insightful journey that explores a family dynamic that is becoming more common in this day and age.

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Obsessions - please use these links to support the show!
Tish:   Acrylic Y2K Style Chunky Retro Resin set of 5 rings!
Ellen: Thai-style 'fresh rolls'... So good on a hot summer night! 

What we talk about in this episode:  boomerang kids, US trends in young adults moving home, multigenerational households, Thai fresh rolls, funky Y2K rings, why adult children move home, trends outside of the US for young adults living at home, clarifying expectations, communication,  regression, what are roommate rules?,  should your adult child pay rent or contribute financially, parent boundaries,  skill building, strengthening your relationship with your adult children, when to ask a child to transition out, 9 rules to help the relationship work when living together.

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Chapters

• 0:20 Adult Children Moving Back Home
• 16:52 Adult Children Paying Rent Debate
• 24:04 Parental Expectations for Adult Children

Transcript

Ellen: 0:21

Today we are talking about adult children moving home, And this is a trend here in the US and even greater outside the US, And it's something that a lot of us at Midlife Experience and we want to talk about how we can make it work.

Tish: 0:39

Ellen, i definitely think this is a growing trend here in the US And they refer to these kids as boomerang kids. So these young adults are moving back home after many times leaving the home, and it's really truly a sign of the times. I think right now And I know we're going to talk about the ways that families can find themselves back in these multi-generational households and how important communication plays in ensuring that it works well- I love that word, tish communication.

Ellen: 1:16

This can be really an amazing opportunity to embrace change for everyone in the family and really grow your relationship with your adult children too. But, as you said, it's important to set expectations and a foundation for it to work for both you, your spouse, your partner and your adult children. And, as one expert puts it, clarify your expectations before an adult child moves back home. Oh, yes.

Ellen: 1:47

All right, I know we both have some personal experience here and some great stories, But before we dig in you know I love this part of our show Let's get to our weekly obsessions. Tish, what do you have for me this week?

Tish: 2:01

Well, my weekly obsession this week are what they refer to as Y2K these chunky retro resin rings. And you get a pack of five of them. They come in a couple different colors and they're just fun and big and chunky And you know what? They're very affordable. So that is my weekly obsession, these chunky rings. So summertime is a great time to wear like a simple black dress or just something simple and then to have a fun chunky ring. I think just sets the outfit off. So that's my obsession this week.

Ellen: 2:41

I love it. No, we have to talk about these just for a minute, because three things here One is a Y2K, a retro ring, because I mean that seems really crazy to me, right, but these are so damn cute. I am definitely buying them. I think they're amazing And you know, tish, one part of your style I really love is that you're bold with your jewelry, and I always have a little bit of envy. So I definitely just want to say this is, like you said, a great way to be bold. You can keep your outfit simple and just knock it out of the park with a ring.

Tish: 3:18

Right, it's just fun And you're just going to want to be showing off your summer manicure with these great little rings And some white nails My white nails.

Ellen: 3:30

I love it.

Tish: 3:31

Oh, it's the little things that make me happy. I don't know.

Ellen: 3:35

I'm with you, i'm with you.

Tish: 3:37

Well, what about you, Alan? What are you obsessing about this week?

Ellen: 3:41

Okay, so I am so obsessed with Thai food I think probably anyone who's listened knows that you and I both are obsessed with Thai food.

Ellen: 3:51

Right, i mean we could go on and on about sticky rice with mango. I think you know we could definitely go there. But I recently learned how to make those fresh rolls. You know the ones. They're not fried, they just are like a whole bunch of great veggies. And you know you buy the outside wrappers and you soak them and you just then fill them with, like lettuce, shredded carrots, avocado, you can go shrimp or tofu, but I've just been doing them with veggies and you can quick pickle some things if you'd like that flavor as well. And they are so good when it's hot out, delicious, easy to make You know they're my daughter's favorite.

Tish: 4:39

She prefers those over the crunchy spring rolls And I definitely want to try that. I think that would be fun to do. Dice things up, And yeah, I don't know. We just have this love affair with Thai food And it's not going away anytime soon. I can tell you that.

Ellen: 4:57

No way. It started in college, so it's a long trend for us, but I'm going to post the recipe for this, and I was shocked at how easy these are to make, so we'll put that out there. What?

Tish: 5:11

a fun thing to do like together with some friends for the summer. You know a little appetizer thing You want to keep it light and fresh, and what a great way to Now. What do you dip yours in The hoisin sauce or peanut sauce?

Ellen: 5:27

I would make a quick little peanut sauce, or some people just like to, you know, even have like a little tamari, something super light. But you know, any chance I get to put some peanuts on some sauce, i'm going to take right Like, but I think you could make them with Mimi. I think maybe she would really love. They're so simple and fun And everyone in my house eats them, of course, because they're happy Saturdays making something these days.

Tish: 5:57

Oh, wow.

Ellen: 5:59

I know Well, all right, let's get to the meat of this boomerang effect with adult children moving back home. And there's several reasons that, at midlife or as midlifers, we find our adult children moving home. It could be financial difficulties, job transitions, going back to school, getting married or saving for a wedding. so many returned during the pandemic to Tish.

Tish: 6:26

You know, parents could also find their children moving home, you know, really just for temporary circumstances, like they themselves are going through divorce, they're going through breakups or they're having health issues, Or sometimes we're the ones having health issues, right.

Ellen: 6:45

You're right, sometimes it's us that have health conditions that create a situation where kids move in, you know, either for a longer period of time or, as you said, temporarily to assist a parent or another family member. So I think it's really varied, right.

Tish: 7:03

You know and then right now I mean housing prices are astronomical, right, and in a lot of areas they're just absolutely not affordable. So sometimes adult children need to move home to save for house, or some of them are doing it, so they save it up enough money for a business.

Ellen: 7:23

I know, and those are great reasons to move back home to me, right And Tish, i have a lot of friends in Spain and a few in Italy, and everyone there lives with their parents until they get married. So this moving out at 18 and never needing to go back with some air quotes here it really varies outside the US in different cultures, so I just thought I'd make that point. It's really different in other places. So I think once adult children are ready to come back, there can be some big challenges and some big opportunities. So you really have to be ready, right.

Tish: 8:08

Yeah, and I'm hearing this conversation happen with more and more friends and there's different concerns for each of them. So we have these boomeranged kids coming home, and now how easy will it be to coexist with them again? That's really the question right?

Ellen: 8:28

I think it is, and there's several things you can do to ensure the best outcome. And no surprise, ding, ding ding. Communication is the first thing. It really can't be the same old mom child communication. I'm talking about having clear boundaries and communication here, ladies, right? I mean, these are not children moving back in, these are adult children, right?

Tish: 8:57

I mean, I think, really kind of to set yourself up right. You have to be able to set up open and honest communication, discussing what your expectations and boundaries are and who's responsible for different chores and activities and who pays what. And I think you have to have all of these discussions prior to moving in to avoid misunderstandings. But then those lines of communication have to stay open.

Ellen: 9:31

Yes, they do. So, I think, setting clear house rules, like you said, regarding chores, but also privacy, or if there needs to be noise curfews, like no noise after 10. I have a friend whose child moved back in and was always inviting people over to the house and they work from home, and so it really needs to be quiet for her work as a work from home person really Monday through Friday, most of the day. So these are the kinds of things, including financial responsibilities, that really need to be set up front.

Tish: 10:12

Right, i had heard this. One friend had a child that ended up moving home and the parents never asked for any financial help. They just assumed that their adult child would be saving their money diligently. There was that assumption, there was no discussion And the next thing they know, this child went out and purchased a $2,000 mountain bike. Well, to say the least, the parents did not take this well, because they're looking at it like that's a month's delay on moving out into an apartment.

Ellen: 10:57

That's right, ouch Tish, really. So it's very common and it really comes to bite you in the ass if you don't get that upfront Right. What we started with assume nothing, and unless you have clear communication, i'm sure that child thought their purchase was just fine, right?

Tish: 11:19

They found themselves with a little extra cash while living at mom and dad, so I think you know, and I think it could be an honest thing, like you know what, i'm never going to be able to afford this, and let me take this opportunity. This is, you know, and again this idea of I'm going to treat myself.

Ellen: 11:40

I love that. I mean for me when I envision this, because I haven't had one of my adult children come back. But is that the kids come back and expect me to be that same old mom, the everything caregiver that they had throughout their life and through high school and college? you know, you know me, i've been such a doer mom. The year of will just you know, got over. So this summer I'm practicing only cooking two nights a week. I'm trying to like move my kids, you know, in into adulthood. How is that?

Tish: 12:14

going.

Ellen: 12:15

Well, will has learned to make two or three new things for himself, and that's right. And the panini maker is in heavy rotation here because, everybody knows how to make a panini Right.

Tish: 12:31

I like that. Well, i can relate. You know my youngest son, liam. He's home for the summer and he has really been enjoying me doing his laundry and cooking and just waiting on him. Right, yeah, and I've always. I have enjoyed spoiling him being home and it's okay if it's just for the summer.

Ellen: 12:56

I agree, i definitely agree.

Tish: 12:59

You know, the summer is getting long right now and I'm like, uh, certainly not as fun as, like you know, the first couple of weeks. but, um, but if he were back long term and I said to him I'm thinking about this, if he were back long term, we would need to be setting different expectations, for sure, about sharing chores and some financial responsibilities.

Ellen: 13:21

Oh for sure. I mean, these young boys eat a lot, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. And you know you wouldn't really be doing an adult child any favors by having them come back home and doing everything for them, because we all know having, you know, getting them, launching them to be independent is such a big part of of them getting back on their own again. And you know, a kid home from college in the summer is definitely a different situation, although when my boys are home for the summer I insist on roommate rules. Tish, what about you?

Tish: 13:58

Oh yes, i love roommate rules and you know I and I have to tell you something It's not like I'm coming, you know, with, with the kids, it's not like I'm trying to put curfews on them, right.

Ellen: 14:13

Right.

Tish: 14:14

But if you're not coming home at night, you need to say something, and that's a roommate rule. Like, hey, if I'm not going to be back, i'm going to tell somebody, so people don't worry about you. Exactly, Exactly, and I think there's that you know once they go away. Well, they're not, they're not, they're not accounting to you for their time. So when they return, they just assume they don't have to account. You know, for their time. But it's about respect. It's not about parental control, it's about respect, and I like that you form it as roommate rules as opposed to well, if you're living under my house, you're going to live under my rules, because that's what my dad, tom, would have said. Oh, that's right, tom.

Ellen: 15:05

Tom definitely would have said that. But no, i've been doing roommate rules with my oldest, jack. I think that it really works. You know, i can wake up in the morning and see a text that said I'm not coming home, and then I don't worry. And you know, these roommate rules extend to leaving dishes on the counter or in the sink or leaving laundry in the washer and, you know, throwing it up on the dryer wet, like you would if you lived in a dorm. It's like no, no, put the laundry through the cycle. We're having nice roommate rules. So I know your daughter, mimi, came home for a short time and lived with you. Tish, how did that go?

Tish: 15:48

You know she did So after she graduated from college. She actually moved with her boyfriend's family for a little bit And then he got a job closer to where I live. So the two of them had asked if they could move in for like two, three months And they did, because he wanted to make sure that he really liked the area, he liked the job, before they committed to living somewhere because you know rents you have to commit to a year. Well, i think we were six, seven months later and there wasn't even any talk of moving out.

Ellen: 16:27

Really, Oh, okay.

Tish: 16:29

And again I think, looking back on it, i thought it was so short term but we never revisited the whole extension And I have a very small apartment, so you know space was at a premium And I think for the most part, most things went really, really well. Now and I know we disagree on this one but I did not charge the kids, i didn't charge them any rent at all, but I also knew that the two of them were very financially responsible.

Tish: 17:08

So they didn't go buying $2,000 bikes. They really did bank all of their money from their jobs And they did have a nice chunk of change to move into an apartment. So I was a firm believer of letting them figure out the finances. But the whole point of living with me was to be able to do that. The difficulties came in with their interpretation of what my rules should be from my youngest son, oh.

Ellen: 17:45

Okay, okay, right, adding that they wanted to help you parent. Well, you know, anyone who's never had a child is an expert parent Of course, and especially all the other kids, feel like we baby, the baby of the family, and they get the best feel.

Tish: 18:05

Right, Well, we do. What can I say? That was basically my thing after a while was yeah, he spoiled Right.

Ellen: 18:15

Guilty as charged for me on that as well. Well you know, i do think that we can offer advice on budgeting, saving and planning, and to our kids, and not in a judgmental way, but really with this growth oriented mindset.

Tish: 18:36

Absolutely So. I have a question for you, ellen. I want to see Yeah, do you think there are more men moving home or boomeranging, or more women?

Ellen: 18:47

Well, since I never really went home and I'm a mom of three boys, i'm going to say I think it's more men. What do you think?

Tish: 18:57

Ding ding ding, ding, ding. It is So I was reading this article from a publication called The Hill Yes, and it says that in 2022, 19% of men and 12% of women have boomerang done back home. Wow, now, 2020 found the numbers a little higher, but they still stayed in line. There was more men than women that came home. That surprised me. I would have expected it to be more women.

Ellen: 19:28

Oh, that's so funny because I naturally think more boys want to go home and have their moms take care of them.

Tish: 19:38

I love it. I love it. Well, obviously that is the case.

Ellen: 19:42

Yes, Yes, and these are interesting stats, tish, and they found. I think returning to the childhood home can trigger or rehash some old arguments, some old boundaries, a loss of privacy or the feeling of being treated as a child again. This is from the adult child moving home And it becomes almost unavoidable for them to perhaps regress. So it's really imperative to explore different aspects of boundaries, such as personal space like my friend who didn't want her child's friends coming over all the time privacy and responsibilities.

Tish: 20:24

Yeah, you know, the number of adult kids I think we're going to see is going to continue to increase, since difficult economic times are followed by increases in kids moving home. So like, if we looked back, you know, kind of in the 1940s okay, we're talking about just post war adult children living at home was at an all time high because the economy was in such difficulties, right, but 48% of young adults lived at home at that time. So you can see, economics plays a huge part in the necessity of kids to be back home And so, if we're looking at, you know, higher rents and higher cost of living and huge debts when it comes to student loans. This is going to delay. What was it? What was that movie that came out a couple of years ago? failure to launch? Yeah, so either going to have a failure to launch or you're going to have a boomerang. Something's going to be going on.

Ellen: 21:37

It's. It's so true. And you know, i think I told you this story before. But my mother moved back home after college in 1960, i think it was 1959. 1960. Most of the women she had gone to college with were getting married. But she moved back home and she worked and she did pay my grandparents some rent. I'm sure it was very modest, but when she got married my grandparents gave her all of that money back as like a little dowry, a little money for her to have to take into her marriage. So I do think that it was right around World War II and really almost up into the 60s, where most kids, you know, no matter what, they stayed at home for a lot longer.

Tish: 22:28

Yeah.

Ellen: 22:30

Yeah, so I think you know you and I have debated this. which is the question do you have your adult child pay rent or not?

Tish: 22:43

You know, i think I really love the way your grandparents handled it. One they never told your mom that she was going to get all that money later. So it kind of you know again we talked about earlier we don't want them to regress into mom and dad take care of everything. Right, that's right. So they were teaching your mom to put away so much money each month. She could do this and then I'm sure she was able to get some new furniture and all kinds of things moving in. So that must have been really a nice. So that might be a great idea, and everyone is in a little bit different situation, but it was funny.

Tish: 23:24

I was reading this Newsweek article that talked about this mom from England posed this question online and it really triggered a huge debate And the question was should you have your adult children pay rent? or, if you say they should, how much should they pay? So the answers that she was getting and people were really like, adamant about their responses on this. So I think she took a lot of heat on this. But it was anything from paying nothing at all right to paying up to a third of their salary. So, ellen say, jack, your oldest son had to move home for an extended period of time. Yep, i feel about charging him rent.

Tish: 24:15

You know that I was so charged him some rent.

Ellen: 24:20

I do. I really believe that that helps them feel, you know, in control in a sense, and I think it's good for them. This again helps to me set the relationship as not being mom and dad are taking care of me. It's a soft spot to land. They're getting a lot of other things from it. So I know you and I kind of disagree on this one, but I would have them pay rent again. This is in theory. you know you and I laugh.

Ellen: 24:52

But I was chatting with a friend about this this past week and her daughter moved in to save up a down payment. This was just to rent a house here in Marin. You know the first, last security deposit, so much money that you need, and it's so expensive here in the San Francisco Bay Area. So she lived with her for 18 months and she did not pay rent, but she did all of the food shopping and she paid for the groceries And I think that's a great kind of alternative If you feel uncomfortable asking your child for rent. She said it was so great because she hates food shopping, and her daughter, you know, she saved up the funds and moved out within the 18 months And so I think that you know you could do something specific like that.

Tish: 25:43

Yeah, again, they feel responsible for something And I think those are really good things, i know. I asked my oldest son he was here this weekend and I said how would you feel if you had to move home? And he said I think I feel like a failure And I said well, it was very extreme to me.

Tish: 26:05

And I was like, well, it could be just a transition time. He said I'm just telling you that's how I would feel And I think you know, i think that wouldn't be an uncommon way to feel. I think, as parents, we want to make sure that our kids don't see that as a failure, that they see this as an opportunity to get on their feet in a responsible way.

Ellen: 26:30

I completely agree And I just want to be clear for you.

Tish: 26:34

Your point of view on paying rent is I think it's really going to depend on the circumstance. Like I said, when I had the kids move in, i did not, i wasn't in, i was okay with my financial situation at that time And I really wanted them to save. I think if I had had concerns that they could not save, they may have charged them. But again, my understanding was that we were doing this for two months and then it went on longer and stuff like that. But the kids did pick up in other areas, such as some food shopping or things taking care of the cars.

Tish: 27:19

Dodge is amazing at taking care of cars And you know he really helped with that, you know, in so many ways. But I guess to me I don't know I would have a hard time taking money if I didn't need it. But I think you get into some shaky ground there because you don't want them to regress, you don't want them not to know that responsibility, you don't want them to start seeing you, as mom, take care of me, do everything. So I don't know.

Ellen: 28:02

I think I would still have a hard time. Yeah, it's one of those. It depends, And I do think you're right And from that standpoint you know it really is dependent on the kid and the situation for you, Okay.

Tish: 28:16

Well, here's the thing, though There was this Morning America interview about boomerang kids, and they were interviewing this young lady who said she needed to make three times her rent in order to be able to move out Right, yes, i guess, to even get accepted by the apartment complexes, okay, where she could rent, and she was making $55,000 a year, which, in a lot of areas, is not a bad starting salary by any means Okay, i'm with you.

Tish: 28:53

And she did not have enough money to be able to afford to move out. Because of car loans and her massive amount of student loans, and with the rents at an all time high, she, making $55,000 a year coming out of college, couldn't afford to be on her own. That's scary.

Ellen: 29:17

No, it is. It's a tough lesson And a great reason to be at home. Pay off a car loan and pay off a student loan, right. But what a tough lesson for young people, tish, and you know this from being in the mortgage business for years. Housing, whether you're renting or owning, should never be more than 30% of somebody's take home pay, Right. And if you add car insurance and a cell phone to that mix, two things that almost every parent I know is still paying for their kids in their early 20s. Right.

Tish: 29:52

Yeah.

Ellen: 29:53

Yeah, that's the most impossible for young adults to start out.

Tish: 29:58

You know, I think as a parent, you can encourage the kids to use the time that they are back home to also to explore different opportunities. Okay, So maybe this is the time they start investing in like career development yeah additional education, acquiring new skills. I mean this is a great time that they can use to invest and build their skillset, to develop, you know, higher paying careers.

Ellen: 30:31

I really like that idea And you know, this is also a time that we can use to strengthen our relationship with our adult children. you know, from finding an activity you can do together like Jack and I golfed when he was home or have something for the shared time. I mean, i know your child wants to be independent, but it's just having that common touch point. I think that many of us see this as an opportunity, not as an obligation.

Tish: 31:05

Oh yeah.

Ellen: 31:08

You know what? I also read an article in empowering parents and they had nine rules for kids who move back home. but it's really more rules for us as parents and and they're not rules, They're just things to kind of really look out for. Let's run through them pretty quick. Tish, do you want to start?

Tish: 31:31

Absolutely Hammer out the guidelines before they move in. You know, talk about all those expectations, set time limits, such as such as you know an expectation when you find a job or when you get your first pay. Stop, you know that kind of thing. Then that's the time. That's going to trigger the time for you to move out Now. Keep in mind that these can be reevaluated, but start with the limits in the beginning. So there is an end game here.

Ellen: 32:04

Yeah, i think those two are really the two most important ones, tish right, and the ones that a lot of people don't do before the situation and they find themselves with very different understandings between the parent and the child. So number three, or the third one, is have a plan of action for them to get on their feet financially. So, if you're good with numbers, help them budget, help them understand different payment options for student loans or car loans. And then really I think this one is so important for us is consider our needs, state our needs clearly to our child, like if my need is for you to not have friends over on the weekends or if my need is for you to not put an alarm on and let it go for 45 minutes in the morning. You really need to clearly state your needs, right, and this is where I think you and I feel like maybe super moms will fall back into it.

Ellen: 33:11

And then don't get pulled into guilt, right? You are not responsible for doing everything for your child because they are an adult. Do not do their laundry, right.

Tish: 33:24

Right, yeah, that's that regression thing. I think that's where they could easily slip into a regression. So a couple more things is, if the situation gets emotionally charged, try not to react to your child's anger. Again, they're coming into this with a lot of emotions of maybe feeling that they haven't succeeded enough, that they have to be back in this situation. But maybe consider taking a time out when things get emotionally charged and then come back when you're all calmer to discuss things.

Ellen: 34:01

Right, and it can be also that your child has some anger because they don't want to be living back at home either. Right, it can be really from both sides.

Tish: 34:11

Yeah, if you're feeling controlled, you need to ensure that these boundaries that you set are clear with your child. I think sometimes parents can be easily manipulated and feel like the child is now running the show again. Yes, and you have to make sure that those boundaries are crystal clear with the child.

Ellen: 34:36

I love that one. I think that's a really important point, and there's nothing like feeling that your boundaries are not being respected.

Tish: 34:49

And if things become abusive and let's be honest, sometimes that can happen, right Yeah, If things become abusive, you need to ask what you're willing, as a parent, to deal with, And you may be in a situation where you need to ask them that they need to leave. So if you feel and this is the ninth thing if you feel you've done your part right, You may, it may be up to you to finally say it's time for your child to leave.

Ellen: 35:23

Right, right, and a lot of us know that there can be substance abuse issues or mental health issues And you know, as a parent you really need to know what your limits are And when you're done it can be just. You know, sometimes kids get too comfortable there and you have to remind them that they are ready, right to get back out there. So just summarize what I'm taking away from this conversation Communicate your expectations as the parent. Listen to the expectations of your adult child. They have some expectations going into this too. Establish boundaries. Walk through the financial considerations.

Tish: 36:11

Saying the adult child's personal independence and growth. Don't let them regress and nurture that parent-child relationship, but at a different level. It's not that you are buddies at this point. You're still parent-child, but you are not the child. It's not the same as when you made the rules and because mom said so, it's a whole different dynamic, right, and you have to understand that. They're adults as well. They need your help, they need your guidance And you have to nurture that in a different and special way after they come home again, but again with the focus being on their independence and growth.

Ellen: 37:08

I love that Patience, open communication, tish, what you said, this growth mindset. And I have to say, if you had asked me this a few years ago I would have said oh wow, i'm not sure I'd be open to my adult children coming back home. But you know every stage of your life. you know, you learn things and you have a different perspective. And I have to say, as my children are getting older and more independent, i would welcome each of them home again to help them get to the next phase of their life.

Tish: 37:43

Absolutely. I think we all would in a lot of ways, But remember that many children this isn't something that they wanted, Even though we might be like, yes, we get them back again for like that reprieve right.

Ellen: 37:57

Right.

Tish: 37:58

We get them back again. But in fact, you know a lot of them are feeling like this is a sign of failure. But we need to help them reframe the conversation into what a great opportunity this is for them to grow, to get financially stable, to build your adult relationship together with them and show them that this is a path where they can reach their goals. And I think by reframing the conversation you can set them up for success 100% agree with that.

Ellen: 38:38

You know, you and I differ on the rent piece. But this is definitely a great topic. We'd love to hear from you listeners on either your experiences or some of your points of view on the things we've talked about today. We'll put links to all the articles in our show notes And just to say till next time, midlifers.

Tish: 39:02

No mess next time. midlifers, have a great week.